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= ISC Meeting on 2020/07/06 13:30 - 14:00 =
Participants:
= ISC Meeting on 2020/07/06 13:30 - 14:30 =
Participants: Kenta Tanaka, Shinji Miyoki, Haoyu Wang, Eleonora Caposaca, Kiwamu Izumi, Koji Nagano, Masayuki Nakano, Matteo Leonardi, Osamu Miyakawa, Ryutaro Takahashi, Kentaro Somiya, Tomotada Akutsu, Yoichi Aso, Yuta Michimura
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Time: https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingdetails.html?year=2020&month=7&day=6&hour=4&min=30&sec=0&p1=248&p2=237&p3=4399&p4=137 Your time zone: https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20200706T0430
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TBD When necessary (New meeting slot: bi-weekly Mondays, from 13:00 JST)
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 * The latest KAGRA FINESSE file lives in https://granite.phys.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp/svn/LCGT/trunk/mif/Finesse_Simulations/
 * Calculations done by Somiya and Hiro show that the effect from BS thermal lensing is smaller than the effect from BS maps, which is smaller than ITM maps
  * Power at BS for bKAGRA design (670 W) is smaller than that for aLIGO design (5 kW ish?)
 * Bifrefringence simulation with FINESSE needs more work.
  * Two-world approach for DRMI could be OK, but some more tricks will be necessary for doing simulation with arms.
  * '''[A/I]''' Organize another meeting to discuss how to simulate s-p coupled interferometer [Michimura]
  * '''[A/I]''' Ask FINESSE developers for the possibility of modifying FINESSE to handle polarizations [Haoyu]
  * '''[A/I]''' Send current model with maps to Haoyu [Kokeyama]
 * Lack of manpower for simulating LSC
  * No one in KAGRA can run Optickle LSC right now
  * LSC sensing matrix from FINESSE seems strange
  * Probably FINESSE simulation is more urgent considering HOM effects are large with current ITMs
  * '''[A/I]''' Find people to work on LSC by Optickle or FINESSE [Michimura]
 * Measurements at the site
  * LSC sensing matrix measurement was done. Needs calibration.
  * RF transimpedance measurement can be done with shot noise limited light
   * DC power can be estimated with DC transimpedance and shot noise limited DC output
   * RF transimpedance can be measured by measuring the shot noise dependence on input DC power
   * Measured RF PD transimpedance also summarized in [[https://gwdoc.icrr.u-tokyo.ac.jp/cgi-bin/private/DocDB/ShowDocument?docid=10675|JGW-E1910675]]
  * Swept sine measurement for intensity noise coupling was done, but couldn't measure the coupling below ~100 Hz due to too much noise
  * Measurements to be done this week
   * PRC length
   * Schnupp asymmetry (measurement done a while ago was for 3 km Michelson with more noise)
   * etc.
 * Others
  * Is it OK to keep SVN public?
 * Video record of the meeting: [[https://gwdoc.icrr.u-tokyo.ac.jp/cgi-bin/private/DocDB/ShowDocument?docid=11793|JGW-T2011793]]
 * Summary of current measurements so far
  * LSC sensing matrix, measurements vs simulation
   * The parameter choice of "BRSE_SDMR1_17_45" is OK for the Optickle simulation.
    * SDMR1 means single demodulation, using REFL_1I for CARM.
   * POP17Q (MICH error signal) seems to have too much DARM contribution.
    * Although DARM displacement is much smaller than MICH displacement and may be negligible, MICH feedforword would spoil DARM if DARM to MICH coupling is too large
    * DARM excitation was done by injecting signal at DARM error point, when DARM was fed back to both ETMs
   * '''A/I''': Sensing matrix re-measurement with
    * Correct CARM calibration
    * Feedforword off (probably already done with FF off, but need to double check)
    * Measurement for both I-phase and Q-phase
  * Schnupp asymmetry
   * Result from time of flight measurement (3.36(1) m, [[https://klog.icrr.u-tokyo.ac.jp/osl/?r=14575|klog #14575]]) and that from laser frequency modulation measurement (0.56 m [[https://klog.icrr.u-tokyo.ac.jp/osl/?r=14541|klog #14541]]) are inconsistent
    * There might be an error in BS calibration, laser frequency calibration and/or calculations
     * ETM calibration starting from free-swinging Michelson and Pcal ETM calibration seems to be consistent
     * Laser frequency calibration using ALS AOM and Pcal ETM calibration seems to be consistent
     * Calculations are confirmed independently by Keiko and Masayuki
    * '''A/I''' Check the calculations again
  * PRC length measurements
   * Time of flight measurement would be possible if you use AS beam
   * '''A/I''' PRY length measurement to be done once IFO is recovered
  * OMC scan to see mode content of AS beam
   * Carrier and f1 HOM3 mode seems to be overlapped (see usb3 in [[https://klog.icrr.u-tokyo.ac.jp/osl/uploads/14691_20200705054303_omcmodes.pdf|klog #14691 omcmodes.pdf]])
    * When designing OMC with "Sam Waldman method", higher order modes of the sidebands were not taken into account
     * FINESSE simulation with TWE maps with sideband higher order modes give negligible shot noise increase and thought it is OK. But now we have birefringence and maybe the situation is different.
    * Possible effects are the shot noise increase and RF intensity noise coupling
     * Changing DARM offset didn't changed the shot noise, which suggests that shot noise from f1 HOM3 is not dominating now
     * '''A/I''' Check with simulations
    * Possible solutions
     * Better alignment (current aligntment is actually not so bad though)
     * Somehow tune macroscopic OMC cavity length
     * Reduce modulation depth
 * Birefringence simulations with FINESSE
  * Haoyu started some simulations with directional BS
  * How to combine s- and p-pol power to set the operating point is to be investigated
   * May be setting the operating point with s-pol only is OK since we have IFI for REFL and OFI for AS
  * Right now with transmission map (amplitude map) only. Transmission phase maps for both s-pol and p-pol also need to be included.
  * Peak splitting observed seems to be consistent, considering PRM-messy Michelson-PRMp coupled cavity
 * New ISC member
  * Kenta Tanaka (ICRR) -> added to kagra-isc mailing list
 * New ISC meeting slot
  * Bi-weekly Mondays, from 13:00 JST
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 * New members
  * Haoyu Wang (University of Shanghai for Science and Technology) [[https://gwdoc.icrr.u-tokyo.ac.jp/cgi-bin/private/DocDB/ShowDocument?docid=11697|JGW-G2011697]]
  * Yubo Ma (Shanxi Datong University) [[https://gwdoc.icrr.u-tokyo.ac.jp/cgi-bin/private/DocDB/ShowDocument?docid=11696|JGW-G2011696]]
 * RECORD THE MEETING
 * Summary of current measurements so far
  * LSC sensing matrix, measurements vs simulation
   * Optickle simulation: https://gwdoc.icrr.u-tokyo.ac.jp/cgi-bin/private/DocDB/ShowDocument?docid=11767
    * Parameter choice of "BRSE_SDMR1_17_45" OK?
   * Measurements: https://klog.icrr.u-tokyo.ac.jp/osl/?r=14515, https://klog.icrr.u-tokyo.ac.jp/osl/?r=14593
  * Schnupp asymmetry measurements
   * Time of flight measurement successful https://klog.icrr.u-tokyo.ac.jp/osl/?r=14575
  * PRC length measurements
   * PRY length: 68.28 m with the error of roughly 1 m (designed: 64.926 m) https://klog.icrr.u-tokyo.ac.jp/osl/index.php?r=14555
   * PRX length: about 68 m (designed: 68.2559 m) https://klog.icrr.u-tokyo.ac.jp/osl/?r=14633
   * Actuator efficiency inconsistent between measurements?
  * OMC scan to see mode content of AS beam
   * Summary http://klog.icrr.u-tokyo.ac.jp/osl/?r=14696
   * carrier and f1 3rd mode is overlapped? http://klog.icrr.u-tokyo.ac.jp/osl/?r=14620
  * Frequency noise coupling
   * https://klog.icrr.u-tokyo.ac.jp/osl/?r=14614
  * Arm cavity round-trip loss measurement with birefringence effect correctly taken into account
   * P-pol and S-pol PDs placed on POS table https://klog.icrr.u-tokyo.ac.jp/osl/?r=14622
 * Birefringence simulations with FINESSE
  * Any volunteer to add polarization to FINESSE code?
  * "directional beamsplitter" could be used to simulate DRFPMI with FINESSE using s/p two-world approach [Haoyu]
   * https://gwdoc.icrr.u-tokyo.ac.jp/cgi-bin/private/DocDB/ShowDocument?docid=11792
 * New ISC meeting slot?
  * Bi-weekly SEO and Chief meeting on Modays, from 15:00 JST
  * How about bi-weekly Mondays 13:00 JST (before chief meetings)
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 * Useful links to know KAGRA interferometer design and status
  * List of optical parameters [[LCGT/subgroup/ifo/MIF/OptParam|OptParam]]
  * MIF Design document [[https://gwdoc.icrr.u-tokyo.ac.jp/cgi-bin/DocDB/ShowDocument?docid=913|JGW-T1200913]]
  * Interferometer design paper [[https://journals.aps.org/prd/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevD.88.043007|Phys. Rev. D 88, 043007 (2013)]]
  * Latest KAGRA status paper [[https://arxiv.org/abs/2005.05574|arXiv:2005.05574]]
  * Summary of measurements related to the interferometer so far [[http://gwwiki.icrr.u-tokyo.ac.jp/JGWwiki/KAGRA/subgroup/ifo/MIF/Minutes20200309|Minutes20200309]]
  * O4 schedule [[https://gwdoc.icrr.u-tokyo.ac.jp/cgi-bin/private/DocDB/ShowDocument?docid=9209|JGW-E1809209]]
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 * Interferometer issues which require simulation studies
  * ITMs have different transmission (ITMX: 0.444 % ITMY: 0.479%) [[https://gwdoc.icrr.u-tokyo.ac.jp/cgi-bin/DocDB/ShowDocument?docid=10352|JGW-T1910352]]
  * ITMs have inhomogeneity [[https://doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevD.100.082005|Phys. Rev. D 100, 082005 (2019)]]
  * ITMs have inhomogeneous birefringence [[https://gwdoc.icrr.u-tokyo.ac.jp/cgi-bin/DocDB/ShowDocument?docid=10369|JGW-G1910369]], [[https://gwdoc.icrr.u-tokyo.ac.jp/cgi-bin/DocDB/ShowDocument?docid=10388|JGW-G1910388]], [[https://gwdoc.icrr.u-tokyo.ac.jp/cgi-bin/DocDB/ShowDocument?docid=11633|JGW-T2011633]]
  * So far no success in locking DRFPMI [[https://gwdoc.icrr.u-tokyo.ac.jp/cgi-bin/private/DocDB/ShowDocument?docid=11693|JGW-G2011693]]
  * WFS not working well [[https://gwdoc.icrr.u-tokyo.ac.jp/cgi-bin/private/DocDB/ShowDocument?docid=11687|JGW-G2011687]]
  * Laser intensity and frequency noise couplings are too high [[https://gwdoc.icrr.u-tokyo.ac.jp/cgi-bin/private/DocDB/ShowDocument?docid=11662|JGW-T2011662]]
  * Carrier power recycling gain for PRMI (roughly 3) and PRFPMI (11-12) are too different, which could be due to the Lawrence effect [[https://gwdoc.icrr.u-tokyo.ac.jp/cgi-bin/DocDB/ShowDocument?docid=11633|JGW-T2011633]]

 * Status of simulation activities
  * LSC simulations with Optickle originally by Yoichi Aso https://granite.phys.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp/svn/LCGT/trunk/mif/IFOmodel
   * Used for designing the interferometer, and deriving requirements [[https://gwdoc.icrr.u-tokyo.ac.jp/cgi-bin/DocDB/ShowDocument?docid=913|JGW-T1200913]]
   * Simulations for O3 by Yutaro Enomoto [[https://gwdoc.icrr.u-tokyo.ac.jp/cgi-bin/private/DocDB/ShowDocument?docid=10341|JGW-T1910341]]
   * Mach-Zehnder modulator simulations by Kohei Yamamoto [[https://doi.org/10.1088/1361-6382/ab4489|Classical and Quantum Gravity 36, 205009 (2019)]]
  * ASC simulations with Optickle originally by Yuta Michimura https://granite.phys.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp/svn/LCGT/trunk/mif/ASC-Optickle
   * Used for designing the interferometer [[https://gwdoc.icrr.u-tokyo.ac.jp/cgi-bin/DocDB/ShowDocument?docid=913|JGW-T1200913]]
   * Simulations for O3 by Yuta Michimura [[https://gwdoc.icrr.u-tokyo.ac.jp/cgi-bin/DocDB/ShowDocument?docid=10359|JGW-T1910359]]
  * FINESSE model originally by Kentaro Somiya [[https://gwdoc.icrr.u-tokyo.ac.jp/cgi-bin/DocDB/ShowDocument?docid=2434|JGW-T1402434]] (any updated version?)
   * Used for OMC design [[https://gwdoc.icrr.u-tokyo.ac.jp/cgi-bin/private/DocDB/ShowDocument?docid=8043|JGW-T1808043]], [[https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10043-015-0028-2|Optical Review 22, 149-152 (2015)]], [[https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1742-6596/957/1/012009|J. Phys.: Conf. Ser. 957, 012009 (2018)]]
   * ITM inhomogeneity effects [[https://doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevD.100.082005|Phys. Rev. D 100, 082005 (2019)]]
   * Also being used for simulating birefringence effects by Keiko Kokeyama [[https://gwdoc.icrr.u-tokyo.ac.jp/cgi-bin/DocDB/ShowDocument?docid=10461|JGW-G1910461]], [[https://gwdoc.icrr.u-tokyo.ac.jp/cgi-bin/DocDB/ShowDocument?docid=10380|JGW-T1910380]]
  * Parametric instability by Kiichi Kaihotsu, Kazuhiro Yamamoto
   * Activities in University of Toyama using COMSOL [[https://gwdoc.icrr.u-tokyo.ac.jp/cgi-bin/DocDB/ShowDocument?docid=10382|JGW-E1910382]]
  * Thermal lensing by Kentaro Somiya ?
   * Thermal lensing in cryogenic sapphire mirrors should be small (orders of magnitude smaller than room temperature fused silica)
   * Thermal lensing in room temperature fused silica BS needs investigation
    * Rough estimation by Hiroaki Yamamoto shows it is OK-ish, comparing the result with aLIGO
    * Further investigation necessary (also for future higher power)
=== Copy from previous meeting ===

ISC Meeting on 2020/07/06 13:30 - 14:30

Participants: Kenta Tanaka, Shinji Miyoki, Haoyu Wang, Eleonora Caposaca, Kiwamu Izumi, Koji Nagano, Masayuki Nakano, Matteo Leonardi, Osamu Miyakawa, Ryutaro Takahashi, Kentaro Somiya, Tomotada Akutsu, Yoichi Aso, Yuta Michimura

Zoom meeting: https://zoom.us/j/5045179604

Your time zone: https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20200706T0430

Next meeting

When necessary (New meeting slot: bi-weekly Mondays, from 13:00 JST)

back to Meetings page

Minutes

  • Video record of the meeting: JGW-T2011793

  • Summary of current measurements so far
    • LSC sensing matrix, measurements vs simulation
      • The parameter choice of "BRSE_SDMR1_17_45" is OK for the Optickle simulation.
        • SDMR1 means single demodulation, using REFL_1I for CARM.
      • POP17Q (MICH error signal) seems to have too much DARM contribution.
        • Although DARM displacement is much smaller than MICH displacement and may be negligible, MICH feedforword would spoil DARM if DARM to MICH coupling is too large
        • DARM excitation was done by injecting signal at DARM error point, when DARM was fed back to both ETMs
      • A/I: Sensing matrix re-measurement with

        • Correct CARM calibration
        • Feedforword off (probably already done with FF off, but need to double check)
        • Measurement for both I-phase and Q-phase
    • Schnupp asymmetry
      • Result from time of flight measurement (3.36(1) m, klog #14575) and that from laser frequency modulation measurement (0.56 m klog #14541) are inconsistent

        • There might be an error in BS calibration, laser frequency calibration and/or calculations
          • ETM calibration starting from free-swinging Michelson and Pcal ETM calibration seems to be consistent
          • Laser frequency calibration using ALS AOM and Pcal ETM calibration seems to be consistent
          • Calculations are confirmed independently by Keiko and Masayuki
        • A/I Check the calculations again

    • PRC length measurements
      • Time of flight measurement would be possible if you use AS beam
      • A/I PRY length measurement to be done once IFO is recovered

    • OMC scan to see mode content of AS beam
      • Carrier and f1 HOM3 mode seems to be overlapped (see usb3 in klog #14691 omcmodes.pdf)

        • When designing OMC with "Sam Waldman method", higher order modes of the sidebands were not taken into account
          • FINESSE simulation with TWE maps with sideband higher order modes give negligible shot noise increase and thought it is OK. But now we have birefringence and maybe the situation is different.
        • Possible effects are the shot noise increase and RF intensity noise coupling
          • Changing DARM offset didn't changed the shot noise, which suggests that shot noise from f1 HOM3 is not dominating now
          • A/I Check with simulations

        • Possible solutions
          • Better alignment (current aligntment is actually not so bad though)
          • Somehow tune macroscopic OMC cavity length
          • Reduce modulation depth
  • Birefringence simulations with FINESSE
    • Haoyu started some simulations with directional BS
    • How to combine s- and p-pol power to set the operating point is to be investigated
      • May be setting the operating point with s-pol only is OK since we have IFI for REFL and OFI for AS
    • Right now with transmission map (amplitude map) only. Transmission phase maps for both s-pol and p-pol also need to be included.
    • Peak splitting observed seems to be consistent, considering PRM-messy Michelson-PRMp coupled cavity
  • New ISC member
    • Kenta Tanaka (ICRR) -> added to kagra-isc mailing list

  • New ISC meeting slot
    • Bi-weekly Mondays, from 13:00 JST

Agenda

Copy from previous meeting

  • Simulation activities necessary
    • LSC and ASC simulations with current ITMs and current interferometer setup
      • Especially LSC simulations not done for PRFPMI and DRMI, and 3f locking
      • Compare measured LSC and ASC sensing matrices with simulations
      • Compare measured recycling gain (for carrier and sidebands) with simulations
      • Compare measured AS mode content with simulations
      • Compare measured MICH/PRCL/SRCL controls noise coupling with simulations
      • Compare measured intensity/frequency noise coupling with simulations
    • Thermal lensing in BS
  • Measurements necessary to do simulation work
    • PRC (SRC) length and Gouy phase
    • Schnupp asymmetry
    • modulation depth (arm cavity scan)
    • arm cavity length (arm cavity scan)
    • arm cavity round-trip loss measurement with birefringence effect correctly taken into account (with PBS at POP/POS and TRX/TRY) JGW-T2011633

    • Power recycling gain for carrier and sidebands
    • Throughput from IMC output to AS RF, OMC DC, REFL, POP, TRX, TRY
  • Measurements necessary to compare the result with simulation

KAGRA/subgroup/ifo/MIF/Minutes20200706 (last edited 2020-07-06 16:26:33 by YutaMichimura)